We had the privilege of interviewing Daniel Purcell from Get Your Marriage On. He is also the creator of the Intimately Us App and coaches men who are struggling with sex in their marriage. In this episode, he gives solid tips on how to help men and women who want sex more than their spouses.
Transcription
Welcome to the love of adventure podcast where we talk about the marriage relationship, intimacy and marriage, and how you can go deeper with your spouse. Today we have a great guest on with us. We have Dan from get your marriage on. Hi, Dan. Hello, how are you? I’m good, man. We’ve known each other for such a long time now, haven’t we?
Yes, yes, we go way back.
I feel like I have like moved three or four times. Probably moved three times since we lived in Dallas. Before that. So I know you forever. So tell us a little bit about get your marriage on because this is now an umbrella for all your other apps. And I feel like you got like a coaching course you just started and everything and I haven’t been able to keep up with everything.
I just have fun. Yeah, if it sounds fun that we do it. So that’s kind of our motto.
We are you about to do like another marriage retreat or something like that. I feel like I was yeah,
we have one coming up in October. And we’re doing it up in the mountains. Each couple gets their own private cabin around the lake, like a picturesque super romantic. We’re having really good food brought in catering. And then it’s me and Amanda Lauder, who is a marriage, intimacy, sex coach, we’re both going to be teaching for three days and three nights. It’s gonna be a fantastic thing you love the in-person events, don’t you?
This would be the fourth one that I’ve done. Yeah, that’s a habit. That’s, that’s good. Yeah, there’s, I think I like them. Because people come with with a certain expectation like, I hope my spouse hears the speaker, say, X, Y, or Z. But then they walk away going, Oh, my goodness, I didn’t realize I need to do X, Y or Z. I have got a role to play in this. And so they kind of walk away with a better picture of how their marriage is operating. And they’re walking away holding hands. And with a lot of hope and faith, like last time, there was a guy that called the week before the conference saying we got to cancel and my wife and I are probably getting a divorce. We don’t think we can even survive the drive down there. So can I get my money back, but it was past the time you get a refund. And you anyway, by some miracle, they survived the drive because they showed up. Anyway, a few days later, he emailed me and said this weekend was so transformative for us, we’re now at a better place we’ve been in three years. So like things that happen in retreats are great because you and your spouse are both like they’re you’re focused on the presentation. A lot of growth happens in spurts Right? Like Keeley will grow. And then Austin will grow and it’s kind of asynchronous. But when you’re at a retreat, you’re both, you know, put in the situation. You’re both growing together. And so it’s very healthy. Emily and I have done, you know, attended other marriage retreats before we find a lot of growth for that, too.
Yeah, that’s awesome. So you got started as doing app development for sex games and things like that, which you know, which I think that’s where I got my big break with marriage blogging as people started finding my sexy Truth or Dare game. And from that, what I have found is that you have a lot of people who come to get bedroom games, and they’re trying to like put a bandaid on an issue in the marriage, which is they have a higher appetite for sex and intimacy and enthusiasm and all this stuff. So they come trying to look for tools to get their spouse engaged. And sometimes it like totally falls flat, they’ll download your app, they’ll get my game or whatever. And then they get on our list and they start emailing us and they’re going, Okay, well, this isn’t working. What do I do next? Because my spouse is not as engaged in sex. I tried to talk to them, but they won’t talk to me. It’s this huge blow-up. You know, what have you. So how’s your experience been with that with your readership?
Oh, definitely. And it’s usually, you know, it can spark this question because they always say something like, how do I get my husband? Or how do I get my wife to be more sexual with me? Right? And they’re looking for a solution to like, what do I say? What’s the what do I buy? What can you know, to get them to all of a sudden become more interested in sex? Yeah, that’s, that’s usually how it goes.
It’s what’s the magic formula, the silver bullet?
I would probably be richer than Elon Musk.
If we could just bottle it in a pill.
So I could tell you what, what doesn’t work. Let’s start there. Start with what doesn’t work. So when you have children, so you probably see this dynamic in your kids too. It’s, I call them losing strategies, these are things you do to you get a short term win, but at the cost of the relationship long term. So one example is pouting. If you don’t get what you want you to pout, or right. And what you’re trying to do is guilt or shame the other person into giving in, right, and for what you want. That’s a very common losing strategy. And sometimes it works, right. Like, if your pet long enough, your spouse might finally give in and say, okay, here, we’ll have sex just to make you happy, right. But the quality of the sex is horrible. And it comes with a great cost. Sometimes it’s an invisible cost relationship. Another very effective strategy that people learned in their childhood is withdrawing. That’s when you like, you withdraw some warmth. In the relationship, you might not physically withdraw, but you definitely withdraw your heart. And it’s also visible, because people are really good at that, putting on a smiling face. Still going through the motions like kissing before you go that but you can tell our brains are really good at mapping other humans like, even though outward motions are the same. It’s lacking that soul, that spirit behind it, so withdrawing. And if I withdraw long enough, then my spouse will finally come around. Another losing strategy I see is fine, I’ll stop initiating. You do all the initiating instead. And that will really help. That will help because I no longer feel the burden of initiating. And it’s the devil’s pact. It’s not a great strategy, because there’s already pressure in the relationship for sex. And all you’re doing is shifting that burden that pressure from one person to the other. It’s not really going away. But short term, it feels great, because the lower desire spouse like thank God, I don’t have to Yeah, I don’t, I don’t have to. I don’t have to initiate, if I don’t want to this sounds great. Until you know, two or three days go by, and you realize or a month goes by, and you realize your spouse is expecting you to do all the initiating now. So all that burden is pressure on you. And guess what, that actually makes things worse, you don’t feel like initiating, you don’t feel like having sex, because there’s all this pressure now on top of what you were dealing with before. So all it did is it doesn’t solve anything, because it just shifts the burden. And the higher desire spouse is now upset about those things, too. So a lot of things we try to do are like control and manipulation tactics. And as adults, and I see this a lot in men, another strategy that’s losing is called Becoming a nice guy. And I put that in air quotes. Because nice guys really aren’t nice. But what I mean by a nice guy is, for instance, though, here on your blog, or on your podcast here about how women love, like, I use the word chore play as foreplay, like this great idea. If I do the dishes and draw a bath for my wife, or the kids their homework, she’ll be so turned on that she just can’t resist me, because you hear about wives complaining, hoping their husbands do more around the house. And they don’t. So they think I’m a great guy. I can be really nice. And I can do all these things. I actually
never give that advice, by the way, because good. Because I think it’s it’s just coming from the wrong place. And your spouse knows that because I have heard women say my husband is only taking care of our kids right now because he wants sex later. And so it devalues his relationship with the children, his commitment to them and it makes it be more about he wants this thing and he’s trying to bargain with you and he doesn’t see taking care of his kids is his responsibility
or whatever. Something you should be doing anyway. Yeah, I
mean, like, there’s so much like, I’ve never even told men well, you should do more dishes to get sex. I think that’s incorrect.
It’s kind of an I’ll frame it and another way to get people’s attention. But prostitution is when you try to buy sex, right? You’re turning you’re trying to do the same thing in your own marriage, you’re trying to buy some sort of sexual validation. Thinking of sex as a transaction. If I do X, Y, or Z like a vending machine, putting their head at Mount sounds what I want, then immediately I should get what I want. Yeah, the problem. Now, I just want to be really clear. There is nothing wrong with lovingly doing things for your spouse doing the dishes, like you should share the burden and the load and your family, right? Yeah, you’re, you’re a couple you’re working together as a team. The problem comes when a lot of this is done without telling your spouse while you’re doing it too like, so in your heart, you have this contract, that if I do X, Y, or Z, she gives me the result want, right? And I’m using stereotypes here, but it can go the other way. Right? And it’s, it’s not kind because it’s controlling, and it’s manipulative, right, and trying to put them in a position where they can’t say no.
And then I think, develop those habits within the marriage where the wife or the husband or whoever, is not the HYDrive spouse, but they maybe want something else. And they’re like, Okay, well, this is how we get what we want. We bargain for things in our marriage, I want him to fill in the blank. So I bargain with him, or I want her to do this. So it just sets up a lot of bad relating habits. Right? Yep. Yeah, like in general, not just about sex.
I have a personal story about this, there was a time in our marriage when we were arguing about sex, and I am the higher desired spouse in my marriage, right. And I really wanted my wife to like, step up in a few ways. So this is my old, immature self, right. And her complaint was, I don’t have enough time. Because I, with my kids, and I, I cook the meals and I like I don’t have time for myself to sit and read a book. Because that was like, that was like our solution, right? Like, well, let’s read a book and then learn more about these things. And then we can incorporate them into the bedroom and see magically, things will just get better. And so it’s like, well, I don’t have time to read a book. So alright, so it kind of bargained with her and said, Okay, how about for two weeks, I will handle all evening CHORES, I’ll make the grocery list. I’ll make the menu, I’ll cook all the meals and clean up. And all you and instead, you can, you know, take your time in the bedroom, you can lock the door if you want. And you can read you know, said book, right? And another thing about our dynamic to understand is, there’s in the past, we’ve had arguments over dinner time, sometimes dinners like 7 pm it gets really late. Yeah. And then when dinner is late, cleanup is late. Bedtime is late. And it’s just like this train wreck everything else cascades from there, right. So not only did I take over dinner, but I had dinner done on time, every night. And I did it kind of with a lot of pride. And I’m not saying the good kind or the bad kind. I was condescending. Yeah, I was condescending. It’s like see how this works? Any see? Yes. Look at me. I work a full-time job. I juggle so many responsibilities. And I’m good at, you know, making meals that you like, that our kids like, and I can handle all this and I can do it on time. Wow. What’s your excuse? Like, that’s the spirit. So when I project that energy, and then she’s in the bedroom, supposedly reading? How do you think she’s gonna feel? Is she gonna feel like swooning and like? Oh, my goodness, I have such a great husband, when all she feels is a little bit of condescension from me, right? No, that’s not gonna help. No, it kind of backfires. It makes things worse. Right? Right. So So that’s, that’s the thing people need to remember, a lot of times our ego gets in the way my ego totally was in the way of us building a greater sexual relationship.
I you know, one of the things that we we’ve talked about this on the podcast with a few other guests and with each other is that we really think that one of the hardest things to communicate to your spouse about sex is that it’s not physical. It’s not just like, so we keep saying, Oh, well, I have this physical desire, and you’re the only one who can meet it and you need to come to meet it because that’s why we got married. And I have said before that, like, especially as a mom, I don’t know how husbands feel about this. But like, I’m starving all the time. And I my physical needs often don’t get met, I’m sleepy, I’m tired. I’m whatever. So why would I break my back to get your physical needs met, but when you couch it in that this is a relational intimacy, a motional connection type of situation. I think it changes that like, you know, an I’ve said this before, if Austin’s hungry, I’m sorry, you’re hungry, I’m hungry, we’re all hungry, we’re gonna have to wait, whatever. But if he says, I feel unloved, and I feel emotionally detached from you, that is like a completely different, you know, situation that I feel like, I don’t want that in my marriage. I don’t want my relationship hurting. And I think that we have to reframe it a little bit. So, I mean, I’ve seen that with Yeah,
I like what you said, it’s dangerous to say, well, you’re my only legitimate sex outlet, right? Because that’s also a control manipulation tactic. And you’re, you’re changing the meaning of sex from something you like what you just said, it’s about intimacy, it’s about connection and oneness, right, changing it to something more about it’s a transaction, or it’s, or I’m entitled to this, it’s that entitlement. And that is so unsexy. Right? So it changes the meaning of sex from something other than what I think can be.
I think it also makes it become a chore, because like, I cook dinner as the primary, the one that cooks dinner, or whatever. And so if it’s like, it’s my job to meet the physical needs as cooking dinner, or whatever, that’s how sex gets on the chore list, because it feels like I’m just doing something else for another person, not really, our relationship growing, I don’t see it as like, us talking or having a conversation or building connection some other way. I just see it as like, this is one more chore I have to do today before I can go to bed. Hmm. You know, I feel like, I feel like that is definitely something that I see happen. But I often have a person who has a lot of sexual desire, email me and say the things like what you’ve said, they’re doing the emotionally unhealthy things like, I take care of our house, I’m very responsible. I’m, you know, like, do all this stuff for myself over function. Right? Like all these things that other people don’t do, I do it. And they don’t even ask me, but I get no reward for this whatsoever, which is also just a terrible way to go about it. Like you took care of your own house. Whoo-hoo. You know, like, I take your mind to it. But they don’t know what to say to their spouse to have the conversation. So a lot of times, what they’ll tell me is every time I try to talk to my spouse about sex, it, it’s like, they don’t want to talk about it. It’s a fight. So what do you say to somebody in that position? Because I like our big thing is communicate, talk to them? And they’re like, what, they don’t want to talk to me? Well, of course,
they don’t want to all they’re going to hear is you like Right. And or that’s the energy that’s projected, like, how come you are not as sexual How come you don’t develop your sexuality? How come you’re not as interested in this as I am? Like it? No wonder why they don’t want to engage in that kind of conversation. Maybe I’ll tell you what does work. I love that scripture in Matthew six, I think about the speck in your eye. And the Yeah, in the other person’s sorry, a speck in the other person’s eye and the end the beam in your own eye or the log in your own eye. We often approach our sexual problems totally in that approach. It’s my spouse who isn’t doing their part. They’re not. They need to step up when we don’t realize that we are co-constructing a marriage dynamic where we’re a part of it. So let me give you another analogy that I think illustrates what I mean there are two ways to solve problems in a relationship. One is, I’d say a direct approach, which won’t work. And then an indirect approach that does work. Let’s pretend you want your spouse to be overweight, and you think they need to lose weight. So a direct approach might be Hey, honey, I just signed you up for a gym membership. Hey, honey, were you on the unilaterally changing our diet and our family? I’m no longer buying soda no longer buying snack food. We’re only buying broccoli now. I don’t know that new broccoli, right, whatever. Hey, animals eat broccoli and they’re big so you can eat perfectly too and you’ll be fine. Or, or I just signed you up for Weight Watchers. I just got you a weight loss coach. Like, very rarely will those approaches, convince your spouse that they need to lose weight. Sure, right. Let’s say you yourself are fit and fine, your spouse is the one that you think needs to lose weight. But what if you changed your approach completely changed yourself, and who you are, and who you are in relation to them. That it’s kind of focusing on yourself first. And that what that does is it shifts the dynamic shifts the system, because marriages are a system, right. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, the other spouse will realize, Wait, my spouse is really growing. If I don’t grow, I need to keep up with us to keep an equilibrium between us. So if you can disrupt equilibrium, to go to a higher level and higher plane, the natural forces of the marriage of that relationship will often pressure the other spouse to step up, I just saw this with a friend of mine in their marriage. Just to be clear, it’s not a problem. But it’s just a fact of the universe, that the lower desire spouse controls sex in the marriage, they will control frequency, they’ll control what goes on in the bedroom, and the lower desire spouse is the one in control. So my friend has a wife who’s only interested in sex on her schedule in her way, on her time, and she wants to limit the kind of sex and the experience of her husband. And in their particular situation, there are some certain things he really wanted to do. Because their desire levels were different enough that, he felt like he needed some more frequency. And when he wasn’t getting the frequency and the connection he wanted, he needed a legitimate way to kind of release his pent-up sexual tension, which was a big source of contention. And so the way he would approach these in the past is always well, you’re, you’re, you’re really stuck up, you’re not open, you’re not open-minded, you’re not. It’s because of your past, it’s because of your grandmother. It’s because of like your upbringing, like, you are so limited and narrow in your view of sex. That’s, that’s the approach that has been taken. And, and it just always turns into a blow up and nothing happens.
Until recently, he got some coaching. And now he realized I have as much to play in the problems in our marriage. And instead, his approach was like, Look, I know, I’m really hard to live with sometimes. And I pressure you all the time. And I don’t like this part of me. And he also realized he’s, he just does not like to disappoint his wife. So the how she gets to him is withdrawing, right. That’s like her tactic. And he’s so afraid of her withdrawing her love and affection and warmth, that he is not living true to himself in with his integrity, and kind of what he believes is right and best for himself. So she’s getting half a man as a result, which she’s not happy with either. And he’s not happy with it. So he’s like, realize that he’s been dishonest with his wife, not like cheating or lying outright, but not living true to his values within himself, and apologize to her for all those things. And then said, I know this is going to disappoint you. But I’m going to do A, B, and C, because I believe they’re right. Because this is going to be good for me. And it’s going to be good for a marriage. And I know you’re going to disagree with me. And I know you’re not going to like this, but I’m not doing it because I’m mad at you. I’m doing this because I think this is the right thing for me to do. Right. And things were awful at conversation. They were as you would expect, but only for a few days. And then guess what? Because he leveled up the level of intimacy in the marriage, right by being vulnerable. He’s not accusing her, he’s really saying this is where I’ve been weak, and I’m gonna get better at these areas. In my relationship with you, he stepped up his level of intimacy. And all of a sudden, his wife started way upping her level of intimacy. And he was telling me some of the great things that are going on now, that just would not have happened before. So the solution to all of this is an indirect approach. It’s when you fix yourself better you start living more honestly yourself and with more integrity. It’s okay to go to your spouse and say, I am disappointed. I feel disappointed because you’re being honest. Right? But you’re not blaming them. Say, I am disappointed that we didn’t have sex last night. When you said we would And I just let you know, I kind of feel hurt and I’m processing that hurt today, I’m committed to our relationship, I really want something great. And I’m not going to pressure you, I’m not going to guilt you, I’m not going to shame you, or all those other things. Because I can deal with a little bit of negative emotion and be okay. But I can be an I’m human, and I’m just letting you know that I’m flawed too. And I’m hurt right now, like, opening up the that goes a long way.
You know, I kind of love this idea. And I feel like we are starting to teach the younger generations, this more is just like being able to put like names to your emotions and why you are responding the way you do to things. And like, this is something we are working with, with our kids, obviously, I’m sure you do the same where you when they’re blowing up, and they’re angry, and they’re upset, and they’re whatever, and you’re like, Okay, so let’s like evaluate what’s actually, you’re feeling right now. Why are you upset? You know, like, let’s identify what’s going on. So like one of the kids was really upset the other day. And it’s because he had invited a lot of friends over and no one was available, and basically taking it out on us. And I’m like, Okay, let’s, let’s evaluate what’s happening. And I don’t know that we were really taught to do that when we were growing up. And so you’ve been told to suck it up? Yeah, like, just deal with it, you know, and suicide. And, and I have great parents and well, meaning everything. But still Yeah, it was like, Don’t be a baby, let’s like move on, you know. But when you first get married, you have no, I don’t think any ability to really share what’s going on. So then you do those things if you get married young, for sure. And now you’re punishing your spouse, you’re like developing these relating habits early on. And I think it’s very hard to break away from that or to even like to have this memory of better times like you develop this foundation of relating, and it just you carry it for 20 years of marriage, and you’re still like, why are we still dealing with this stuff? It’s because of how you started that foundation of marriage. And so now you really have to, like break free from it. And change it. Like, okay, we’ve had this fight about 1000 times. What? We can’t keep having it, what do you have to change to make it different to actually resolve it? And I tell us, I tell people, and I say listen, I hate to tell you this, but your spouse may not even feel or think or believe the things you do. And they may not ever be as sexually engaged as you want them to be. But can you celebrate where they are? At least at this moment? And function in the relationship that way? Because the truth is, you’re probably not meeting their expectations in other areas of the marriage either. So but you take a so personally offended when it comes to sex? Well, what about the way that, you know, maybe your dating life is maybe they really want you to date more with you. Or maybe they want you to be a better planner, or maybe they want you to I don’t know, whatever it is. And I feel like we just keep making sex be this thing like It’s like separate. It’s this separate hurt and separate pain like it’s much greater hurt and pain than any other thing that happens in the marriage. And I just don’t agree with that anymore. And I don’t think it’s necessarily healthy. Because it’s like if the lower drag spouse has okay, but you’re making me feel bad. And like, I’m not good enough when I don’t have sex with you. But I did all these other things over here. It’s like, well, it doesn’t matter because you didn’t have sex. And that hurt that I’ve put on you isn’t as big of hurt as me feeling rejected about sex or whatever. Right? Right. So
I don’t know, again, if that changes the meaning of sex out of intimacy and connection to a transaction or something else. Right.
Right. And it makes it more I think sometimes maybe we in error teach that sex is some kind of right that you get. And if it’s denied to you,
or it’s a reward for good behavior, yeah,
right, rewards, whatever. And if you don’t get it, then maybe it does feel like a form of punishment, when that’s not even at all what’s actually happening. Right. So in your experience, have you ever had anybody on the low drive side? share with you why they maybe are saying no, or not as enthusiastic or as excited or whatever
like that? Oh, tons of reasons. Yeah.
So what are Some of those reasons because I know it’s different for everyone? But I think that the higher drag spouse cannot fathom what it is that’s keeping their spouse from that.
